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Looking for parts for water jacket/range boiler system for wood cook stove

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  • Looking for parts for water jacket/range boiler system for wood cook stove

    I have an old publication from Lehman's that spells out specific parts to use in the DHW set up. Lehman's no longer sells the parts and they aren't well identified in the book. My plumbing supply company is having trouble finding the pieces/parts. Has anyone done an install from this book that could provide specific part numbers?

  • #2
    Welcome 3doggirl. That will be a tough one because you did not show the pages from the publication your referring to so no one here has any idea what your talking about especially since your telling us your local plumbing supply is having trouble and they can probably see what your talking about. Were not fortune tellers here and we can't see through time, sorry. Here are some links to some books that may be helpful, If you had purchased your Cookstove from Obadiah's we walk you through this process and provide all the parts you'll need that you may not be able to find locally. Unfortunately it is too time consuming at to much risk for us to help folks who went elsewhere. My guess is the reason Lehman's no longer sells the parts or has any info on how to do this is because of the litigation, liability and risk involved.
    I am planing on making a You Tube on this subject that will cover how "I did it" in detail. That video will get into depth on this touchy subject which is why few folks will touch it with a ten foot pole. However at this stage in the game, this project is still pretty far down on my "to do list". In the meantime here are some links that touch on this subject that you may find helpful. It really is not that difficult and all the parts are readily available if you understand what your doing and how to do it. If you don't have the basics to understand how to do this and what is needed and have to have exact parts that Lehman's suggest, you probably should not be messing with project. Hiring a professional is also not always the best idea as they generally only understand Hydronic Heating and not Thermosphioning which is the process DHW works on. Which by the way, most folks don't know your talking about Domestic Hot Water when you say DHW.
    Here are some links to 100 year old text books that give pretty detailed instructions on how to do this. For anyone considering this type of project that does not have a in-depth understanding, they should start here. The books are all free and out of print, Thank you Google! http://books.google.com/ebooks?id=PIAAAAAAMAAJ http://www.archive.org/details/hotwa...lyki00huttrich http://chestofbooks.com/home-improvement/construction/plumbing/Standard-Practical/Chapter-XXIII-Range-Boilers-Theory-Of-Circulation.html

    You'll find the videos I have made so far on DHW or Domestic Hot Water Heating here on this website. There are more to come so stay tuned. I have literally helped hundreds of folks hook up their stoves and asked them to make a video on how they did it so I could share it with others. So far not one person has been willing to follow through once they get the help they wanted they move on and wont help anyone else. Not sure why, but that is the case thus far. Sorry I could not be more help. I am planning on designing a complete system with a wood fired range boiler and all the parts to hook it up to a wood fired cookstove if I can get past the liability aspect.
    In these videos, Woody Chain explains your domestic water heating options and various types of heat exchangers and water coils.

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    • #3
      i realize I wasn't very clear but no brains last night. Anyway, tried to upload just 5 pages to show what I was looking at and it says the file is too large. We have to figure this out as this will be our only source of hot water this winter. After reading about this I fully understand the dangers of this installation and that is why I am trying my best to do it correctly so I don't blow up my house. We are hiring a plumber but he doesn't like anything but cookie cutter housing development stuff so I was trying to put the parts along with the piping diagram in his hand to make the process go smoother. I'll try split the file down to 3 pages and see if I can upload it in case anyone cares to assist.
      Last edited by 3doggirl; 09-04-2015, 11:34 PM.

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      • #4
        So with only 3 pages it still says I exceeding the file maximum to upload so I am unable again to show pics of what I'm looking for.

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        • #5
          Maybe you can email me and I'll see what can be done to get it posted. Please send it to woody at woodstoves dot net and I'll look at it and see why your file size is so large. When you scan something the resolution is critical to the size of the file, Each page could be several megs. If your scanner has a setting that allows you to scan for email use that, it will lower the resolution to a place that will allow it to be uploaded. Also sending or uploading each page individually helps reduce file size. Thanks and have a great Labor day, where did the simmer go???? ;(

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          • #6
            Thanks for the offer Woody. What I am doing right now is heavy research on this. I think I will be able to get all the parts figured out. Once done, I will post all the parts with their numbers and where to get them. I have calls into both Lehman's and Elmira stove folks. Also downloaded the Grundfoss catalog and search the Watts parts online. I don't do videos but will take a photo to go with the parts info as soon as I have it figured out. Since we are building a house we don't have time to get wood this year so I am hoarding my firewood from prior years. I am sitting in the house with my coat on. We were super glad to get rid of the smoke but I'll be glad when it goes back to the 80's this week.

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            • #7
              Yeah it sure seems like we went from summer to fall fast. We'd appreciate anything you can share here with others. I do my best but I'm just one guy and going in way too many directions these days. Building a house can be a big undertaking and I wish you the best of success. Please let me know if I can do anything else to help out. Enjoy the sunshine this weekend, it is supposed to be a beueaty, not many more nice ones left. Going to take my grandsons tubing on Flathead Lake while we still can. They are 3 and 5 and have a blast!

              Comment


              • #8
                So this whole quest on hooking up the wood stove for hot water has been a nightmare. I was told first that Lehmans didn't have any of the parts and then told they did and they would sell them to me. Been waiting two weeks for them to send me a quote. In the meantime, no plumber will touch our house if we include this. I was going to try to have the rough plumbing set up for this but even that is a problem with the plumber. He says copper pipe with a circulation pump will deteriorate and pex pipe can't handle the heat. I think it is BS but in the interest of getting a roof over my head before winter (or economic collapse) I gave up for now. I am still trying to get parts so I can do this in the future. Most of the parts in the Lehman's book "getting Heat from your wood stove" book are from Watts. The parts numbers somewhat correspond. I was able to go onto the Watts website and figure out most of them. Also from the Grundfos pump website I was able to find a pump that might work. For now I have to table this as in addition to building the house I have a daughter who needs my help for the better part of the next month. I'm not giving up - just frustrated as plumber's don't want to help. I will post again when I have something positive to share.

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                • #9
                  Yes unfortunately that is the case with this. I am willing to help but my insurance company says I cannot tell anyone how to do anything, only share what I have done. Then when I do help I get a customer who berates me because everything does not come pre-installed and the instructions written so a blind man can do it, which makes me feel like saying forget it. We live in a lawless society that is sue happy and looking for an excuse, which is why the plumber is hesitant to help you too. The reality of today is that few folks are willing to stick their necks out.
                  As far as what the plummer says, some of it is true, some is not. I have been installing boilers for almost 40 yrs now and have not had copper plumbing deteriorate and PEX plumbing is used all the time in boilers. It is all a matter of what type and grade your using and where and how it is installed. I have put together some diagrams for you, as well as the Watts part numbers at the end of this thread as well as a link to my website where we'll assemble kits for folks looking to do this kind of stuff. http://www.stove-parts.net/Boiler_Parts_s/64.htm
                  I hope folks that read this will not be calling me asking me how to do this. If you bought your stove elsewhere, please understand I am already working long hours taking care of my customers. There are only so many hours in a day and my customers who are loyal to me deserve my time first, that leaves little time left for my family and those I love. I'm also a professional Firefighter and volunteer my time to the dept. Which is why I had this site built to leverage my time to as many folks as possible who may have inherited a stove or had one drop from the sky.
                  To give credit where credit is due, this info can be found on my website and it was provided by Elmira Stove Company which produces a very nice wood cookstove called the Elmira Fireview, a very high quality cookstove which is not to be confused with the Flameview which is on the other end of the spectrum in my humble opinion.
                  http://woodstoves.net/documents/Elmi...cketManual.pdf

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                  • #10




                    Range Boiler Hookup.jpg

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                    • #11
                      Range Boiler Hookup 1.jpg

                      Choosing the Right System
                      Depending on your needs and preferences, your water jacket can be installed using Convection / Thermosyphon
                      Water Recirculating System or a Pumped / Active System. If your storage tank is located below or a distance away from the stove, you will need to use the Pumped System. If you do not have access to, or do not wish to use electricity to circulate your water, you will want to use the Convection / Thermosyphon system.

                      Convection / Thermosyphon Water Recirculating System
                      The thermosyphon, convection or gravity system relies on the principle that hot water rises and cool water falls,
                      circulating water from the stove to the storage tank and back again. Cooler water from the bottom of the storage tank drops through the piping system to the water jacket, where it is heated. From here it travels back to the top of the storage tank. This is the most basic and dependable method of heating water with a woodstove, and will automatically deliver hot water to your storage tank any time there is heat in your stove’s firebox.

                      For this system to work properly, the cold water outlet on your storage tank must be placed higher than the cold water inlet on the water jacket. The formula for placement is one vertical foot higher for every two horizontal feet between the water jacket and the storage tank. (Example: if your storage tank is located four feet from the
                      water jacket, the tank must be at least two feet higher than the water jacket.) Locate the storage tank within eight horizontal feet of the water jacket. For optimum performance, place the tank as high above the stove as possible.

                      Keep the piping as straight as possible and use as few 90 degree elbows as possible.
                      (If you must use elbows, 45 degree elbows are preferred.) Use pipe of at least ¾” diameter for the water jacket-to-tank loop. The pipe must enter the top of the storage tank, and a 150 p.s.i. pressure temperature relief valve (PTV) must be installed on the top of the storage tank. All pressure temperature relief valves must be piped to
                      a drain. Install a tempering valve in the hot water line above the pressure relief valve.

                      Install a check valve in the cold water line leading from the storage tank to the water
                      jacket, in the line between the storage tank cold water outlet and the water jacket cold water inlet. The directional arrow on the check valve must face in the direction of the flow of water (i.e. must face in the direction of flow to the water jacket). Install a drain valve at the lowest point in the piping system.
                      DO NOT INSTALL GATE VALVES ANYWHERE IN THE SYSTEM. IF THERE ARE GATE VALVES, AND THEY ARE LEFT CLOSED, IT WILL CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE SYSTEM AND COULD POSE A SERIOUS SAFETY RISK.

                      All pipes should slope downwards slightly towards the water jacket to prevent air from being trapped in the line.

                      Pumped / Active System
                      If your storage tank is located below the stove or a great distance from the stove, you will need to use the
                      pumped / active system. With this system, an electric pump is used to circulate the water and a heat activated sensor is used to activate the pump when the stove is hot.

                      Caution: In the event of a power failure, highly pressurized in the water jacket and
                      piping. An additional pressure temperature relief valve (PTV) must be located in the hot water line within two feet of the water jacket. The PTV must be installed according to local building and safety codes, and must be piped to a drain.

                      NOTE / DANGER: If you plan to use your water jacket during a power outage, you MUST have a source of cold water to replace any hot water you draw off for use. water may stop moving and become Failure to do so can cause an air lock at
                      the top of the system. This will prevent thermosyphon circulation and could result in excessive pressure and explosion.

                      DO NOT INSTALL GATE VALVES ANYWHERE IN THE SYSTEM. IF THERE ARE GATE VALVES, AND THEY ARE LEFT CLOSED, IT WILL CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE SYSTEM AND COULD POSE A SERIOUS SAFETY RISK.

                      Installation
                      It may be difficult to find all of the fittings required at your local plumbing or hardware store. If you require
                      parts that you are unable to find, you can order them through: Your Local Plumber.

                      NOTE: Any time the installer is connecting different metals to each other (i.e. stainless steel to steel, steel to copper, etc.), they must use a brass nipple*. If this method is not used, electrolysis between the different metals will cause the pipe to break down and leak. Use steel or brass pipe and fittings on any line within three feet of the water jacket. Do not use copper fittings within three feet of the stove – in the event water flow stops, heat will rapidly build up in the pipe and melt soldered joints, causing leakage and potential safety hazards.

                      * Some local building codes require dielectric unions rather than brass nipples. Although brass nipples are a better alternative (the plastic gasket in dielectric unions can melt at extreme temperatures), you must comply with local building codes.
                      Your stove can be fitted with either a rear or side water jacket – the installation instructions are almost identical for both. If you have a heat shield installed on your stove, it will have to be removed prior to installing the rear water jacket. The shield must be replaced after installing the water jacket if you wish to maintain clearances applicable to a shielded stove.
                      1. Allow the stove and firebox to cool completely. Remove all ash and debris from the firebox.
                      2. Remove the left cookplate: Lift the left side of the plate. Slide the plate slightly to the left (out from under the next cookplate). While guiding the lifter handle (if the lifter is attached) through the cabinet bracket, lift the plate off of the stove. Set aside.
                      3. Rear jacket: Remove the retaining clip holding the top of the rear fire brick. While standing behind the stove, hold the clip and undo the screw on the back of the range which holds the clip in place.
                      Side jacket: Remove the rear brick as outlined above. Open the Fireview door. Grasp the nut under the inside center of the door with pliers and undo the corresponding bolt on the front of the stove (middle of the ash catch). Lift the small
                      stainless steel sheathed fire brick out from under the Fireview door. Grasp the large fire brick on the left side of the firebox
                      by the grooves in the bottom of the brick. Gently lift the brick and slide the bottom out over the retaining pin on the wood grate, so the top of the brick can clear the retainer above.
                      4. Carefully remove the brick(s) and store.
                      5. Using a screw driver and a hammer, knock out the ¾” centers of the round plugs on the back or side (depending on which jacket you are installing) of the stove. Using pliers, twist the remainder of the 1-3/4” plug out of the metal plate.
                      6. Install two 1-1/2” x 3/4” brass nipples into the water jacket.
                      7. Set the water jacket into the firebox in the position from which you removed the brick. Carefully guide the pipe nipples through the holes in the back or side of the firebox. Place enough washers onto the ¾” pipe on the outside of the stove wall to cover the unthreaded portion. Thread a ¾” nut on to each nipple and tighten to secure the water jacket. Do not over-tighten. (Nipples, washers and nuts are included.)
                      8. Replace the brick(s) removed in step 3.
                      9. Rear jacket only: You can route your water lines through the space between the top of the heat shield and the back of the splashback, or you can route them out through the side of the heat shield. (Use the template provided to cut notches in the heat shield so it can be removed and replaced with the pipes in place. Do not exceed the cutout dimensions on the template, as this will compromise the effectiveness of the heat shield.)

                      Your water jacket is now installed in the firebox, and is ready for the plumbing to be connected. Contact a qualified plumbing contractor for the balance of the installation.

                      An air valve / vent, rated to 150 p.s.i., must be installed in the highest point in the system where air bubbles
                      might become trapped, and in any other “loop” where air pockets might develop.

                      A check valve must be installed in the cold water line leading from the storage tank to the water jacket to prevent flow reversal. The arrow on the check valve must point in the direction of water flow (towards the water jacket). Use only a “swing gate” check valve, not a spring-loaded check valve. (Most swing gate valves must be installed in a horizontal run of pipe.)
                      Install a drain valve between the water jacket and check valve. Do not install the check valve between the jacket and drain; it will prevent the jacket from draining when you drain the system.

                      Maintenance
                      Free-flowing water is a very effective coolant – the flow of water to and through your water jacket will help to
                      ensure a long life. Even though your firebox may be extremely hot, if your system is maintained properly and water is carrying heat away from the jacket, the temperature of the water jacket should always remain moderate.

                      Lime and sediment build-up will eventually begin to restrict the flow of water through the water jacket. The frequency with which maintenance will be required will vary, depending on the concentration of minerals or sediment in your water. Clean the water jacket at least once per year, or any time water heats more slowly than normal. There are two effective methods for cleaning your water jacket:
                      1. Remove the water jacket and take it to your local radiator repair shop. For a modest charge, they can “boil”
                      residues and build-up out of the jacket.
                      2. Remove the jacket and lay flat, with plumbing fittings facing up. Fill the jacket with a solution of 75%
                      vinegar, 25% clean clear water. Let stand for six hours. Flush thoroughly with a garden hose and re-install. After cleaning, the water jacket should be pressure tested to ensure it has not been weakened by cleaning or corrosion.

                      Tips & Trouble Shooting

                      Pressure Temperature Release Valves Fire Too Frequently:
                      PTVs release when the water in them becomes too hot. This can be caused by a number of factors:
                      Poor / slow circulation of water. Possible solutions include moving the storage tank higher and closer to the stove, eliminating elbows and / or replacing 90 degree elbows with 45 degree elbows.
                      Rapid heating of the water jacket. If the water in the jacket is heated too quickly, before thermosyphon circulation is established, the water in the jacket and at the first PTV may be excessively hot. This problem can often be corrected by warming the stove more gradually, allowing circulation to establish before building a full hot fire.
                      Lack of hot water use or excess heating capacity. If hot water is not being drawn out of the system frequently enough, the system may overheat. Especially when operating your stove at high temperatures, occasionally run hot water to reduce the water temperature in the system. Alternatively, you can increase the size of the storage tank and / or remove some insulation from the pipes and storage tank.
                      If the suggestions above do not remedy the problem, and if possible, install a circulating pump.

                      DO NOT move the PTV further from the water jacket. The PTV only releases because safe pressure limits have been exceeded.

                      Tips:
                      Because of mass manufacturing efficiencies, a conventional hot water heater, left disconnected from gas or electricity supplies, is probably the most cost-effective storage tank you can purchase.
                      To prevent property damage, put a drain pan under any storage tank that is located above living space or materials you wish to protect from potential water damage.
                      Use 50/50 solder when installing copper pipe.
                      Use fine sandpaper to clean copper pipe for soldering. Use Teflon plumbing tape on all threaded joints.
                      Wrap hot water pipes with insulation to minimize heat loss. (Exception: if your system is continually overheating and firing PTVs, you may wish to allow some heat loss through the pipes.)

                      Range Boiler Hookup 2.jpg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And for the rest of the story why Obadiah's is the best place to buy a wood cookstove.......here are all the part #s you have been waiting 2 weeks for Lehman's to send you.
                        These part numbers are all Watts #
                        As we are Biomass Boiler Specialist and have the largest selection of wood, coal, corn, pellet and biomass boilers found anywhere we will also begin stocking these parts for you and folks like you. However finding a installer is something I am sorry I can not help you with.
                        Watts EDP #0215500 3/4" 70A 120 deg to 160 deg F Hot Water Extender Tempering Valve
                        Watts NO. 100XL 3/4" 125 (PSI) Automatic Reseating Combination Type Temperature and Pressure Relief Valve (USE THREE AS SHOWN ABOVE IN DIAGRAM)
                        WATTS FV-4M1 Automatic Float Vent 1/4" (USE TWO IN HIGH POINTS IN THE PLUMBING LOOPS TO BLEED OFF AIR)
                        NEVER INSTALL A FLOW SPRING LOADED CHECK VALVE IN SYSTEM!!!!! Even a swing valve can cause issues.
                        Please see this thread about this subject http://cookstoves.net/forum/forum/ma...th-waterjacket

                        As for a system that uses a pump, in my opinion your asking for trouble, although we use pumps all the time in Hydronic Heating Systems we use Aquastats to run them.
                        These systems are not that difficult to install if you understand Hydronics and are competent, otherwise they are very dangerous.
                        You need a 006 Taco 110 Circulation Pump with Sweat ends 3/4" as these are designed for domestic hot water.
                        Another good pump is a Grundfos GRUPS15-58FC 3 speed 115 volt (BOTH PUMPS ARE IN THE $140 RANGE)
                        To control it you will need either a well type or a strap on type Aquastats from Honeywell or other manufacture.
                        A Brass type swing check valve should be installed in some systems to make sure the water is flowing in the proper direction when the pump turns on.


                        If you want a 12 volt system you will need a 12 volt switch that is controlled by temperature. There are many ways to do this, using r12 volt relays and thermostats.
                        Pumps that work on 12 volts are Laing 12 volt Circ. Pump 1/2" NPT 3 gal./min 1.9 amps, or a Topsflor 12 Volt Circ. Pump 3 gal. per minute .90 amps.
                        These parts or similar parts will be available on my website soon as I get some extra time to put together plumbing kits for folks like you that are trying to do this kind of project.
                        Sorry it is so complicated, I hope I have been able to help you 3DogGirl. You impressed me with your tenacity, so please keep your chin up. It gets better if you pray a lot for wisdom……

                        Here is my parts website where I'll have the parts kits to make this easier from now on.
                        http://www.stove-parts.net/Boiler_Parts_s/64.htm
                        Last edited by Woodstove Woody; 05-10-2016, 02:20 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello Woody: I appreciate all you help with this. In order to move forward with the house we did some set up (rough plumbing part) on this but will be installing it at a future date. I have a local boiler guy who will do the install for me later down the road once we get through this year's construction boom. I also found all the parts so I have them in a box in case the world topples in the meantime. Too bad folks are so law suit happy but they sure are. Just sent a "hold harmless" letter to a bozo who did everything my husband told him not to on his drain field and will probably try to sue us when it fails.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I hear ya and appreciate the fact that you understand my predicament when I'm trying to help folks hook this stuff up. Being self employed really changes ones perspective, when your in a constant battle to keep what you've earned. Someday soon the reset button will be pushed and the Bureaucrats will be runnin for cover.....along with the other leeches...

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